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	<title>Comments on: FlashForward: ABC&#8217;s new time paradox</title>
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	<description>real thoughts on reel experiences</description>
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		<title>By: Christopher Schnese</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Schnese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-643</guid>
		<description>The way I see it, the only real option they have is to hold to the &quot;you can&#039;t change the future&quot; method or &quot;in tying to change the future you actually caused it&quot;. As you mentioned, if they changed the future then they can&#039;t have that flash forward. 
 
Then again, depending on your concept of time travel, the argument could be made (albeit VERY poorly) that the rules for seeing the future and the rules for changing the past are completely different. By this I mean it could be argued that you can&#039;t change the past because it&#039;s already happened. While the future can be changed because the &quot;vision&quot; is really just one possible outcome of the future. 
 
Personally, I believe that if one can travel backwards in time, then that proves the existence of a continual timeline. Which means that people ahead on that timeline could travel back to the first persons point. 
 
So... the only way I think the time paradox can be reconciled is if the main character becomes aware of this. Then begins to leave clues for himself in the future so that they can be given back to himself in the present. There is the slightest hint of this when he puts the photographer&#039;s photo of the burnt doll on the board. Since he used the clue of the photo to figure out they should investigate the doll factor, then he need to put it on the board so he&#039;ll have it in the future to be able to let himself know in the past. 
 
The film Time Crimes portrayed this concept very well. You have to make sure that everything happens in the exact same manner. If they main character understands this and begins to leave clues for his future self, then I might be able to go a little easier on the show. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see it, the only real option they have is to hold to the &quot;you can&#039;t change the future&quot; method or &quot;in tying to change the future you actually caused it&quot;. As you mentioned, if they changed the future then they can&#039;t have that flash forward. </p>
<p>Then again, depending on your concept of time travel, the argument could be made (albeit VERY poorly) that the rules for seeing the future and the rules for changing the past are completely different. By this I mean it could be argued that you can&#039;t change the past because it&#039;s already happened. While the future can be changed because the &quot;vision&quot; is really just one possible outcome of the future. </p>
<p>Personally, I believe that if one can travel backwards in time, then that proves the existence of a continual timeline. Which means that people ahead on that timeline could travel back to the first persons point. </p>
<p>So&#8230; the only way I think the time paradox can be reconciled is if the main character becomes aware of this. Then begins to leave clues for himself in the future so that they can be given back to himself in the present. There is the slightest hint of this when he puts the photographer&#039;s photo of the burnt doll on the board. Since he used the clue of the photo to figure out they should investigate the doll factor, then he need to put it on the board so he&#039;ll have it in the future to be able to let himself know in the past. </p>
<p>The film Time Crimes portrayed this concept very well. You have to make sure that everything happens in the exact same manner. If they main character understands this and begins to leave clues for his future self, then I might be able to go a little easier on the show.</p>
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		<title>By: mr t</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>mr t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-642</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think the time-theory of the show works because of the paradox - but i think they&#039;ll get away with it. 
 
there are two main problems with the paradox etc. as it stands after 2 episodes 
 
firstly, the paradox of the self-fulfilling board of leads - where does the information come from? 
 
secondly, in the future, fbi-guy should know that he is about to get shot - what is he doing there!? 
 
time travel shows have to be based on one of two principles, either you can change whats going to happen or you can&#039;t.  flashforward is mixing its drinks at the moment...but it might be short-lived. 
 
if you can&#039;t change the future, then everyone who had a vision (rather than nothing) is invincible.  you could fire a gun at their head and it would be impossible for the gun to go off - because they have to survive.  even if you tried killing them 1000 different ways, you&#039;d be thwarted every time because its certain that they&#039;re going to be alive in the future. 
 
lets assume they&#039;re not going with that time-theory - there&#039;s already some evidence for it.  unless the daughter of the main character (benford) is going to keep making him friendship bracelets, then he&#039;s already changed the future.  so from that we can presume that the characters will change the future and that benford won&#039;t be in his office on his own waiting to get shot at the time of the flashforward... 
 
so what was the flashforward then?  it is definitely a snapshot of a future in which a flashforward event had happened, but that event could not have been for the same future-time as the flashforward we have been shown, otherwise benford wouldn&#039;t be in his office waiting to get shot, and FBI-boss would be on the toilet.  so either through deep-thinking by writers, or by oversight, the only working theory is that the flashforward is of the future of a parallel universe where things went along a similar path, but not the same path.  in that universe they would have had a flashforward of an another universe - maybe one in which a flashforward had happenned, maybe not - who knows.  thats the only way to solve the paradox. 
 
the &#039;warning&#039; theory which goes like &quot;the path you&#039;re on will lead to this future, now go and change it&quot; doesn&#039;t quite work because the flashforward event is included in the future - if you&#039;re able to change it then you wouldn&#039;t have just seen what you&#039;ve just seen! 
 
the thing that will keep me interested in the show is seeing how they tackle this issue as they approach the time of the flashforward.  if they&#039;ve changed everything by that time then will they wonder what it was that they saw in the first place? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#039;t think the time-theory of the show works because of the paradox &#8211; but i think they&#039;ll get away with it. </p>
<p>there are two main problems with the paradox etc. as it stands after 2 episodes </p>
<p>firstly, the paradox of the self-fulfilling board of leads &#8211; where does the information come from? </p>
<p>secondly, in the future, fbi-guy should know that he is about to get shot &#8211; what is he doing there!? </p>
<p>time travel shows have to be based on one of two principles, either you can change whats going to happen or you can&#039;t.  flashforward is mixing its drinks at the moment&#8230;but it might be short-lived. </p>
<p>if you can&#039;t change the future, then everyone who had a vision (rather than nothing) is invincible.  you could fire a gun at their head and it would be impossible for the gun to go off &#8211; because they have to survive.  even if you tried killing them 1000 different ways, you&#039;d be thwarted every time because its certain that they&#039;re going to be alive in the future. </p>
<p>lets assume they&#039;re not going with that time-theory &#8211; there&#039;s already some evidence for it.  unless the daughter of the main character (benford) is going to keep making him friendship bracelets, then he&#039;s already changed the future.  so from that we can presume that the characters will change the future and that benford won&#039;t be in his office on his own waiting to get shot at the time of the flashforward&#8230; </p>
<p>so what was the flashforward then?  it is definitely a snapshot of a future in which a flashforward event had happened, but that event could not have been for the same future-time as the flashforward we have been shown, otherwise benford wouldn&#039;t be in his office waiting to get shot, and FBI-boss would be on the toilet.  so either through deep-thinking by writers, or by oversight, the only working theory is that the flashforward is of the future of a parallel universe where things went along a similar path, but not the same path.  in that universe they would have had a flashforward of an another universe &#8211; maybe one in which a flashforward had happenned, maybe not &#8211; who knows.  thats the only way to solve the paradox. </p>
<p>the &#039;warning&#039; theory which goes like &quot;the path you&#039;re on will lead to this future, now go and change it&quot; doesn&#039;t quite work because the flashforward event is included in the future &#8211; if you&#039;re able to change it then you wouldn&#039;t have just seen what you&#039;ve just seen! </p>
<p>the thing that will keep me interested in the show is seeing how they tackle this issue as they approach the time of the flashforward.  if they&#039;ve changed everything by that time then will they wonder what it was that they saw in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Schnese</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Schnese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-638</guid>
		<description>Obviously the average person, being boring and mundane like we all are, wouldn&#039;t be waiting for the pointless event that they had flashed forward to, but you&#039;re right. Anyone who had experienced an event such as... oh I don&#039;t know, being gunned down while staring at a board of mysteries you couldn&#039;t solve, might try and avoid staring at said board. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously the average person, being boring and mundane like we all are, wouldn&#039;t be waiting for the pointless event that they had flashed forward to, but you&#039;re right. Anyone who had experienced an event such as&#8230; oh I don&#039;t know, being gunned down while staring at a board of mysteries you couldn&#039;t solve, might try and avoid staring at said board.</p>
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		<title>By: Metanome</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-635</link>
		<dc:creator>Metanome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-635</guid>
		<description>How come no-one in the future was waiting for the moment they&#039;d had a vision of 6 months earlier? Surely you&#039;d be thinking &quot;This is the date when I had my Flash Forward&quot; and if something bad happened in the vision, alter it. But then would the vision change accordingly? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come no-one in the future was waiting for the moment they&#039;d had a vision of 6 months earlier? Surely you&#039;d be thinking &quot;This is the date when I had my Flash Forward&quot; and if something bad happened in the vision, alter it. But then would the vision change accordingly?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Schnese</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Schnese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-563</guid>
		<description>Yeah, we could probably go on forever about the absurdity of the plot. I guess I could kind of buy the fact that the government might be concerned that &quot;someone cause this&quot;, but I&#039;m pretty sure that scientists would be the first ones investigating. Not any agency. You know, unless the FBI reopened the X-Files... 
 
I think the worst thing about the show is that most people didn&#039;t even have a vision of anything bad. Maybe there is some greater conspiracy, but no one in the general population should or would be able to figure that out. It may be a scary / religious experience to some people, but it&#039;s not like everybody had a Heroes-style vision where the world blew up or anything like that... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, we could probably go on forever about the absurdity of the plot. I guess I could kind of buy the fact that the government might be concerned that &quot;someone cause this&quot;, but I&#039;m pretty sure that scientists would be the first ones investigating. Not any agency. You know, unless the FBI reopened the X-Files&#8230; </p>
<p>I think the worst thing about the show is that most people didn&#039;t even have a vision of anything bad. Maybe there is some greater conspiracy, but no one in the general population should or would be able to figure that out. It may be a scary / religious experience to some people, but it&#039;s not like everybody had a Heroes-style vision where the world blew up or anything like that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Heltsley</title>
		<link>http://www.reelperspectives.com/archives/flashforward-abcs-new-time-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>John Heltsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reelperspectives.com/?p=62#comment-562</guid>
		<description>Yeah, the causality loop can be a cliche, but I didn&#039;t see it as too big of an issue, really. I had more of a &quot;problem&quot; with the whole &quot;the entire world blacks out for 2 min 17 sec, and the FBI chooses to investigate this, and is given the power to do so. But more than that, it&#039;s only 3 agents from LA that are doing it.&quot; Wouldn&#039;t you have it run out of DC? Maybe not by the FBI, but a joint-task force? And certainly more than just 3 agents? 
 
Regardless, I liked the premise of the show, and it gave me enough that I&#039;ll tune in next week. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the causality loop can be a cliche, but I didn&#039;t see it as too big of an issue, really. I had more of a &quot;problem&quot; with the whole &quot;the entire world blacks out for 2 min 17 sec, and the FBI chooses to investigate this, and is given the power to do so. But more than that, it&#039;s only 3 agents from LA that are doing it.&quot; Wouldn&#039;t you have it run out of DC? Maybe not by the FBI, but a joint-task force? And certainly more than just 3 agents? </p>
<p>Regardless, I liked the premise of the show, and it gave me enough that I&#039;ll tune in next week.</p>
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